Sweet MUMories Oral History Project - Rosa Lean Lindsey
Title
Sweet MUMories Oral History Project - Rosa Lean Lindsey
Description
Date
December 2, 2016
Duration
29:47 minutes
Transcription
Sweet MUMories Oral History Project
Transcript: Rosa Lean Lindsey December 2, 2016
–Donation record #_Lindsey.R.12022016__
Transcribed by Maryah Martin, Jade Smallwood 6/30/2017. Approved for deposit by Marsha Robinson
MRR My name is Marsha Robinson and we are recording an oral history with Ms. Rosa Lean Lindsey as part of the Sweet MUMories Oral History Project. This project marks the fiftieth anniversary of the Miami University Middletown, Ohio, campus. This interview is taking place on December 2, 2016, at the Gardner-Harvey Library on the Middletown campus. Ms. Lindsey, do I have your consent to proceed with this interview?
RLL Yes, you do.
MRR Thank you for joining us today. Would you mind telling us about your relationship to the Miami Middletown campus?
RLL Well, my relationship to Middletown campus is I started a scholarship in my name because I have been giving donations to other people for their scholarship and it occurred to me, “Why can’t I start my own? Why am I giving my money for someone else’s scholarship? And I thought about what type of scholarship I wanted and I decided that since people always say “single parents” as if it’s negative about single parents and that they cannot do a good job of raising kids and I am a single mother and I wanted to give a scholarship to single, African American women because I wanted to give them the ability to go out and look for jobs, to give their children the best kind of education and home environment that they possibly can give them.
MRR I’d like to start talking about what might have inspired you to do that. So, can you tell us about what your plans were for your own education once you were in Middletown High School? What were your plans?
RLL Well, my plans for when I was at Middletown High School, one teacher I had really talked about how the world was out there waiting for all of us when we graduate from high school. And I really believed her. And I thought when I graduate I can’t wait because there’s a world out there that, you know, can help me have a good living, better than my mother and that generation. So, when I went to an employment office, they told me that I was only capable of doing housework, and that in itself I couldn’t believe that. You know, here it is, I thought, Middletown. And I went to high school, got good grades, and I couldn’t figure why is it that I could only do housework, and that really basically bothered me. So, for ten years I caught the bus coming out to the east end of town, cleaned houses. But I always notice that the Middletown Journal, they had young women, younger than me, or older than me, they worked there. And I’m wondering, “Why is it that I can’t get a job there? Because, we buy their papers. Why don’t we have someone there that looks like us?” So it took me ten years, I went in every year. In fact I think I probably went in every three months and put in an application. They always got thrown in the garbage can. So, finally, I lucked out. The receptionist that was at the desk also was the secretary to Mr. Morris and on my application, she kept my application, but there was an “N” on it, to say that I was a Negro. I hope that’s what it meant. And even though it was white out, it still showed through. And the Civil Rights Law came about, that’s how I ended up at the Middletown Journal after ten years of trying, stayed there for fifteen years. Then I got moved upstairs to a boss upstairs and, well, he didn’t like me, I knew I would be in trouble, I knew I would get fired, eventually. So, I was making twenty-five cents more than the girls upstairs. So he told me that he only get, each department got a budget and they paid salary according to the way they want to pay it. So he told me it’d be five years before I got an increase in salary because the girls there made, I made twenty-five cents more than they did. So it was time for me to leave. So that’s when I left there.
MRR And where was the next step?
RLL The next step I went to work at a water refinery and worked there. But it was really basically, that my job got eliminated. They gave me a choice. Either, they would accept for me to retire from there or clean the toilets. And I thought, “I did that for a long time and I wasn’t going to do it again.” So, I told them that I could not take that job. I would not accept that type of job. So, I left with pay. And then after that I got involved in politics at the Board of Election, Democratic Party. My question was always, “Why is it that we campaign for candidates, we get them elected, and they forget about us?" No one gets hired anywhere. So, it took me six years. I never gave up. And I decided if we can work for candidates, why shouldn’t we have representation at the Board of Election? So I broke through there, and got that job there and stayed there for twenty-three years, and that’s where I retired from.
MRR Wow. Now future readers of this story are going to be surprised that a city that has an international exporting steel company, and several major companies, would have this civil rights problem north of the Ohio River. Can you describe some of the obstacles faced by African Americans at the time that the Middletown campus was created, and maybe a few years afterwards? What was it like to be African American in Middletown in the 1960s?
RLL Well, really, basically, I would like to go a little further back than that in order for you to understand how I felt about Middletown. I came here at the age of eleven and I noticed that Middletown was no different than where I came from--Uniontown, Alabama. We had an uptown that was for white people and the downtown was for black people. And you didn’t go into stores and buy shoes. I know you probably think that it’s strange, but it isn’t. When I first got my first pair of shoes I had a string that I put to measure my foot but I didn’t know that I should start at the big toe and measure front-to-the-back so my shoes ended up too little. And you couldn’t take them back. What you buy, you didn’t try on anything. And you couldn’t try on clothes. And you couldn’t try on hats and everything. So when I came to Middletown, I noticed that blacks lived in certain sections of town.
MRR Which section?
RLL The south side of town. And there was on the east side of town only white people lived. Like Stephen Hightower and his family, when the Open Housing Law came about, they were the first black family that moved to the east end of town. And they had to hire people to sit on the porch with guns so they could sleep at night. Because they said when black people move into a white people community, their property value went down. And also we had a family on Central Avenue. He came back from the Vietnam War and he bought a house on Central Avenue and they tarred his house. He said that if you could go to Vietnam and fight for someone else’s freedom, why is it that when he comes back to his country, he doesn’t have the same freedom? So, when Miami University was built I never really thought much about it because I knew that Middletown was very segregated. We couldn’t go to the Manchester Hotel, only for cleaning. We could not go to the Y. We could not go anyplace, you know, like everyone else. Even like the park out here, we weren’t allowed to go. So when I came out and Sam [Ashworth at a Verity Traditions presentation at Verity Lodge-added by editor] showed the pictures and everything
MRR Of Armco Park?
RLL Yeah, of Armco Park. I thought, it’s almost in another world. I thought really, was that really going on in Middletown? That’s why I said Middletown was a city within a city because we were not privileged to see all of Middletown. We knew our place and that’s where we stayed, in our section of town.
MRR I understand that Armco Park did provide a separate park for the African American community. Do you recall using that park and what was it like?
RLL It was Heaven. Douglass Park, to us, that’s where everything happened for us there. We not only had tennis court dances with no fights, and we had our community center skating. We had dances and this is what we did. We didn’t think about other parts of the city because we was happy with what we had. We had our own swimming pool so it never occurred to us that the other part of the town was different. Because, like LeSourdsville Lake, we was never allowed to go there! It was off limits. So, it’s just that we accepted where we lived and what we did. Actually to be honest with you, I think it was religion because our churches preach about Heaven and Hell and that we should not want that riches on Earth because when we die we have to have a book of all the good things. And that we will be in Heaven and the streets are made of gold. So, I think we were sort of brainwashed to accept our surroundings and maybe it was to protect us and we didn’t, you know, know that. But I think that’s what’s behind the whole thing, to make us want to get to Heaven. So we don’t need those things that was not good for us. I think this is what happened, we more or less wanted to, we accepted the religion part of it.
MRR When the Middletown campus opened, and before then, a few African Americans did attend classes at the high school location before the campus opened and some people did attend the campus here at MUM. Were there any rules that said that you’re not supposed to go? Was it social rules? Was it written rules?
RLL I think it was social rules. We never instilled in our kids that they want a better education, that we want a generation to be better than the last generation. And I think that when we were able after Civil Rights Law, and after everything opened up for us, we didn’t talk to our kids and let them know how hard it was, that what we got, we didn’t always have. So I think that we accepted that we were living a little bit better, so we never thought about education, you know, going to college.
MRR When the college did open, within in a few years there were faculty of color here. Do you recall any of those faculty?
RLL No, because I didn’t come out this way. I worked and the only time I’d start coming out here is when I retired because I always wanted to come out and listen to speakers and learn more. So that’s when I started coming out here. I never thought of Miami University any other way.
MRR Another question I’d like to ask you, did you ever know a gentleman named Leon Childs?
RLL No.
MRR And, now when you walk around campus and see students of color, what is it that you would like to say to them?
RLL Well, I would like to say to them, I hope they’re getting a good education. I hope they’re not out here partying and just to be out here just to be partying. And that I hope that they go far in life. And whatever they are learning, I hope they teach someone else and encourage someone else to also seek a good education.
MRR When the campus was founded, the original committee wanted to create opportunities. Do you see those opportunities now rolling out for the entire community?
RLL I really can’t answer that. I don’t know. I know why I started my scholarship, because I wanted to give single mothers the opportunity to get a good education and I specifically said for Miami University only.
MRR And have you met any of those scholarship recipients? We can’t name them but have you met any of those young ladies and what have they said to you?
RLL I came out to a scholarship banquet and I met three. One family thanked me for the scholarship. And plus I had a little problem with my scholarship when I finished paying it off. First, it was sent a letter telling me that my scholarship was to do things around campus life. You know, fixing a Finkelman door and things like that and they never mentioned what I said I wanted. So, I have a bad habit of when I get information I don’t read it right then and maybe I sit down later on, maybe six months later and I think let me read this. And then I found out that my scholarship was given to a white girl. And so, the name and the address, I thought, I don’t think black person don’t live in this community. In fact, I know a black person would not be living in this community. So, I called my daughter since she has a computer. I said “I need you to look up this name and tis address and tell me whether they’re black or whether they’re white.” So, they looked it up and my grandson called me and said, “I hate to tell you this but she’s all white.” So, I called and I said, “I think my scholarship said “African American single woman with children.” That’s what it said and that’s what I want.” So she said to me that she thought it was against the law to put my scholarship like that and I said “Well, if it’s against the law then I want my money back because if that was the case then you should not have accepted my money. And I definitely do not appreciate you giving my scholarship to a white person.” So, this time I got my information they just gave me the name but they didn’t give me where the person lives, so now I’m trying to find out whether my scholarship is being done the way I specifically said it should be done. And then my letter they sent me said that I went to college and I’ve never been to college so that was false information. So I had to call them and say I have never been to college and the reason why I gave my scholarship because when I go places I don’t see diversity and that bothers me tremendously. When I go to the City Building, I don’t see diversity. So that bothers me and I wonder why is it that blacks cannot get jobs? Apparently they need a better education. And then when I went to Hamilton to work, you don’t see blacks. You don’t see diversity. So that’s why I started my scholarship, to try to encourage black women to get involved and do things. And don’t think you only belong in a certain box. Get outside of your box.
MRR Is there anything else you would like to add to the record on this question about Miami Middletown?
RLL Well, when I first got my scholarship paid for, they invited me out. And I thought it was kind of funny because everybody looked at me like, “What is she doing here?” You know, why is she here?
MRR At a party?
RLL Yes, and I thought it was kinda cute because I knew why I was there. And even people that I’ve known for years and have talked with and knew they never came up to me, you know, like they didn’t know me. And I thought, “Boy, this is very interesting.” I always get a kick out of when I come in and I’m the only black person. And it’s like nobody comes and sits at my table and let’s talk politics or something instead of “why is she here?” It’s because I gave money and started a scholarship and you should come and talk to me to find out what type of scholarship I gave and maybe you would like to have some friends donate to my scholarship.
MRR I think that’s a wonderful approach.
RLL Yes.
MRR Perhaps this will set a lesson and we can get more people to set up more scholarships and to think about that.
RLL I hope so, and I really hope that people, when they start doing scholarships, that they would follow through and give it for diversity, look at diversity when they give it.
MRR I noticed that you’re a member of the NAACP. Would you like to talk to us about that and any connections to any events at Miami Middletown?
RLL I joined the NAACP when I was about twenty-three. And I think I joined mainly because we had a Reverend James Holloman. He was the minister at United Missionary Baptist Church and I never joined church before. I always went to church because I had to go but I didn’t join church until I was twenty-nine and I joined his church because it wasn’t about Heaven and Hell. It was about accomplishments and questions, our surroundings and why we are doing better than what we are doing. The NAACP at that time, Mr. Louie Cox, was president. And going to United Missionary Baptist Church one time, when we tried to get jobs at the library in order to force them to hire blacks, we were very dissatisfied that the only person there was the one that had black did the cleaning. So, we took out all the books to force them. We were really very active, to take out all the books to force them to hire some blacks in certain positions. We did a lot of things in Middletown under James Holloman and the NAACP at that time. And to make Martin Luther King Birthday a federal law, we campaigned, NAACP, we campaigned against the city because it was a federal holiday. It took them about two years before they would recognize Martin Luther King Day as a holiday. So, the argument was, they had personal day and they couldn’t see themselves recognizing, the employees said, they couldn’t see themselves giving up their personal day and the city said they couldn’t afford to pay them for another holiday. So, it took them a long time to recognize Martin Luther King Day and close the building rather than start giving us a program venue for two hours and say “Thank you. Goodbye.” To join the NAACP, I thought there was so many things that we could do to challenge Middletown and what they were doing to black people. And that’s what we did. We would have meetings with the Post Office and find out why aren’t they hiring black people. We had meetings with Doug Ding to find out why he wasn’t closing the library on a federal holiday. We had meetings with the banks to find out why they could not recognize Martin Luther King Day as a holiday because it was a federal holiday. So, the NAACP, those are the things we did.
MRR Did any speakers come to Middletown that made the NAACP proud? To the Middletown campus, did Benjamin Hooks?
RLL Yes.
MRR Did you attend the Benjamin Hooks event in Middletown?
RLL Yes, I attended Benjamin Hooks and I think that’s what inspired me to want to come out here more to listen to more speakers.
MRR Were you surprised to hear that Benjamin Hooks was coming here?
RLL Yes, I was surprised to hear that Benjamin Hooks was going to come. And plus we had an Ebony Fashion Show out here. Yes, it was really nice. Anita Scott Jones, she’s the one that brought it to Miami University.
MRR Do you recall what year that might have been?
RLL No, I don’t. All I know is Anita, she brought it out here to Miami University.
MRR Over the years there has been some diversity programming at the Middletown Campus. Sometimes around Civil Rights, sometimes around Martin Luther King Day. Do you have any comments about those events?
RLL Yes, I used to come to the Martin Luther King holidays because I wanted to see how far we have come in life after all the things that he believed in and worked toward. And so one celebration I came out and I said, “I am tired of coming to “Feel Good Day” because we don’t accomplish anything. Every year we talk about the same thing and every year we are at the same place. So I can’t believe. Why are we doing that?” So really, basically, I stopped going to the holidays because I did not see anything accomplished. I believe in when you set a goal, you should follow through on that goal and see some progress. And I didn’t see any progress. So that’s why I call it the “Feel Good Day.” You go home and forget why we went to the program in the first place and then work toward making things, coming through with the things we talked about.
MRR Sometimes in this last year, 2016, there have been a lot of people talking about “We used to feel good back in the day” or “We’ll make America great again.” Have you any comments about that 2016 theme?
RLL Well my comment is, when Donald Trump said, “I want to make America great again,” I forever watch and wait for a newscaster to say what year are you talking about? And then tell us about that year and what was going on at that time. And if he’s talking about the 1950s, that’d put me back in doing domestic work, working mediocre jobs. Even at Armco, when they discriminated against blacks working out there, there were certain jobs they wouldn’t give them. So they got sued for their discrimination. It bothers me that if he’s talking about the sixties, then I remember the Klu Klux Klan coming to Middletown and parading. So to me he’s saying that he wants white only to have the best of the best and blacks and browns do mediocre jobs and never go to college and never want anything other than going to Heaven and Hell, going to church, and having their religion. This bothers me and then I noticed that since he became President, he’s bringing out a lot of very bad things that’s going to happen. Then it bothered me that since President Obama, he’s harassed him for eight years. And I think, “How can America, this America, that blacks go to war and get killed and die for the country and come back to the country and find out their rights are not as equal to whites?” So this bothers me also. It also bothers me, that everything he campaigned on, if he doesn’t follow through for what he’s said, I believe that there will be a war between the race. Because the things he said, the white people, that’s what they want. And he has to follow through with everything he’s said, and I don’t think he can do that. And the fact that he wouldn’t show his taxes shows that he really is not the best of the best of the best that we could have a President.
MRR So if we take this back to what Middletown Campus can do for our students in the next fifty years, what do you think we should make sure that we do as part of their whole-person education?
RLL To tell the truth and make us aware and make us think. I like when I hear a speaker, if they say something I can’t get out of my mind, when I go home I can hear it. And that makes me want to do something about it. And this is what I hope that the campus would do to talk to students, to make them think, “Is this what we can do to make things better? Is things not going the way they should be going?” So this is what I hope Miami University would do.
MRR Is there anything else that you want future scholars to know as part of this interview?
RLL I hope more black people give scholarship for people of color. And that they feel that their money, they can share it with other people and they don’t have to keep it all to themselves. That they can give it to the next generation to improve our people.
MRR And with that I’d like to know if I have your permission to discontinue the interview?
RLL Yes, you do.
Indexing terms for the finding aid:
African Americans
Armco Steel Company
Armco Park
Ashworth, Sam
Board of Elections
Civil Rights Law
Cox, Louie
Ding, Doug
Discrimination
Domestic/Houseworker
Douglass Park
Hightower, Stephen
Holloman, Reverend James
Hooks, Benjamin
Jones, Anita Scott
King, Reverend Martin Luther
Ku Klux Klan
LeSourdsville Lake
Manchester Hotel
Martin Luther King Day
Middletown High School
Middletown Journal
Midpointe Library
NAACP
Non-traditional students
Obama, President Barack
Open Housing Law
Scholarships
Segregation in Middletown
Single mothers
Tarring of a house
Trump, President Donald
Uniontown, Alabama
United Missionary Baptist Church
Veterans
Vietnam War
YMCA
Transcript: Rosa Lean Lindsey December 2, 2016
–Donation record #_Lindsey.R.12022016__
Transcribed by Maryah Martin, Jade Smallwood 6/30/2017. Approved for deposit by Marsha Robinson
MRR My name is Marsha Robinson and we are recording an oral history with Ms. Rosa Lean Lindsey as part of the Sweet MUMories Oral History Project. This project marks the fiftieth anniversary of the Miami University Middletown, Ohio, campus. This interview is taking place on December 2, 2016, at the Gardner-Harvey Library on the Middletown campus. Ms. Lindsey, do I have your consent to proceed with this interview?
RLL Yes, you do.
MRR Thank you for joining us today. Would you mind telling us about your relationship to the Miami Middletown campus?
RLL Well, my relationship to Middletown campus is I started a scholarship in my name because I have been giving donations to other people for their scholarship and it occurred to me, “Why can’t I start my own? Why am I giving my money for someone else’s scholarship? And I thought about what type of scholarship I wanted and I decided that since people always say “single parents” as if it’s negative about single parents and that they cannot do a good job of raising kids and I am a single mother and I wanted to give a scholarship to single, African American women because I wanted to give them the ability to go out and look for jobs, to give their children the best kind of education and home environment that they possibly can give them.
MRR I’d like to start talking about what might have inspired you to do that. So, can you tell us about what your plans were for your own education once you were in Middletown High School? What were your plans?
RLL Well, my plans for when I was at Middletown High School, one teacher I had really talked about how the world was out there waiting for all of us when we graduate from high school. And I really believed her. And I thought when I graduate I can’t wait because there’s a world out there that, you know, can help me have a good living, better than my mother and that generation. So, when I went to an employment office, they told me that I was only capable of doing housework, and that in itself I couldn’t believe that. You know, here it is, I thought, Middletown. And I went to high school, got good grades, and I couldn’t figure why is it that I could only do housework, and that really basically bothered me. So, for ten years I caught the bus coming out to the east end of town, cleaned houses. But I always notice that the Middletown Journal, they had young women, younger than me, or older than me, they worked there. And I’m wondering, “Why is it that I can’t get a job there? Because, we buy their papers. Why don’t we have someone there that looks like us?” So it took me ten years, I went in every year. In fact I think I probably went in every three months and put in an application. They always got thrown in the garbage can. So, finally, I lucked out. The receptionist that was at the desk also was the secretary to Mr. Morris and on my application, she kept my application, but there was an “N” on it, to say that I was a Negro. I hope that’s what it meant. And even though it was white out, it still showed through. And the Civil Rights Law came about, that’s how I ended up at the Middletown Journal after ten years of trying, stayed there for fifteen years. Then I got moved upstairs to a boss upstairs and, well, he didn’t like me, I knew I would be in trouble, I knew I would get fired, eventually. So, I was making twenty-five cents more than the girls upstairs. So he told me that he only get, each department got a budget and they paid salary according to the way they want to pay it. So he told me it’d be five years before I got an increase in salary because the girls there made, I made twenty-five cents more than they did. So it was time for me to leave. So that’s when I left there.
MRR And where was the next step?
RLL The next step I went to work at a water refinery and worked there. But it was really basically, that my job got eliminated. They gave me a choice. Either, they would accept for me to retire from there or clean the toilets. And I thought, “I did that for a long time and I wasn’t going to do it again.” So, I told them that I could not take that job. I would not accept that type of job. So, I left with pay. And then after that I got involved in politics at the Board of Election, Democratic Party. My question was always, “Why is it that we campaign for candidates, we get them elected, and they forget about us?" No one gets hired anywhere. So, it took me six years. I never gave up. And I decided if we can work for candidates, why shouldn’t we have representation at the Board of Election? So I broke through there, and got that job there and stayed there for twenty-three years, and that’s where I retired from.
MRR Wow. Now future readers of this story are going to be surprised that a city that has an international exporting steel company, and several major companies, would have this civil rights problem north of the Ohio River. Can you describe some of the obstacles faced by African Americans at the time that the Middletown campus was created, and maybe a few years afterwards? What was it like to be African American in Middletown in the 1960s?
RLL Well, really, basically, I would like to go a little further back than that in order for you to understand how I felt about Middletown. I came here at the age of eleven and I noticed that Middletown was no different than where I came from--Uniontown, Alabama. We had an uptown that was for white people and the downtown was for black people. And you didn’t go into stores and buy shoes. I know you probably think that it’s strange, but it isn’t. When I first got my first pair of shoes I had a string that I put to measure my foot but I didn’t know that I should start at the big toe and measure front-to-the-back so my shoes ended up too little. And you couldn’t take them back. What you buy, you didn’t try on anything. And you couldn’t try on clothes. And you couldn’t try on hats and everything. So when I came to Middletown, I noticed that blacks lived in certain sections of town.
MRR Which section?
RLL The south side of town. And there was on the east side of town only white people lived. Like Stephen Hightower and his family, when the Open Housing Law came about, they were the first black family that moved to the east end of town. And they had to hire people to sit on the porch with guns so they could sleep at night. Because they said when black people move into a white people community, their property value went down. And also we had a family on Central Avenue. He came back from the Vietnam War and he bought a house on Central Avenue and they tarred his house. He said that if you could go to Vietnam and fight for someone else’s freedom, why is it that when he comes back to his country, he doesn’t have the same freedom? So, when Miami University was built I never really thought much about it because I knew that Middletown was very segregated. We couldn’t go to the Manchester Hotel, only for cleaning. We could not go to the Y. We could not go anyplace, you know, like everyone else. Even like the park out here, we weren’t allowed to go. So when I came out and Sam [Ashworth at a Verity Traditions presentation at Verity Lodge-added by editor] showed the pictures and everything
MRR Of Armco Park?
RLL Yeah, of Armco Park. I thought, it’s almost in another world. I thought really, was that really going on in Middletown? That’s why I said Middletown was a city within a city because we were not privileged to see all of Middletown. We knew our place and that’s where we stayed, in our section of town.
MRR I understand that Armco Park did provide a separate park for the African American community. Do you recall using that park and what was it like?
RLL It was Heaven. Douglass Park, to us, that’s where everything happened for us there. We not only had tennis court dances with no fights, and we had our community center skating. We had dances and this is what we did. We didn’t think about other parts of the city because we was happy with what we had. We had our own swimming pool so it never occurred to us that the other part of the town was different. Because, like LeSourdsville Lake, we was never allowed to go there! It was off limits. So, it’s just that we accepted where we lived and what we did. Actually to be honest with you, I think it was religion because our churches preach about Heaven and Hell and that we should not want that riches on Earth because when we die we have to have a book of all the good things. And that we will be in Heaven and the streets are made of gold. So, I think we were sort of brainwashed to accept our surroundings and maybe it was to protect us and we didn’t, you know, know that. But I think that’s what’s behind the whole thing, to make us want to get to Heaven. So we don’t need those things that was not good for us. I think this is what happened, we more or less wanted to, we accepted the religion part of it.
MRR When the Middletown campus opened, and before then, a few African Americans did attend classes at the high school location before the campus opened and some people did attend the campus here at MUM. Were there any rules that said that you’re not supposed to go? Was it social rules? Was it written rules?
RLL I think it was social rules. We never instilled in our kids that they want a better education, that we want a generation to be better than the last generation. And I think that when we were able after Civil Rights Law, and after everything opened up for us, we didn’t talk to our kids and let them know how hard it was, that what we got, we didn’t always have. So I think that we accepted that we were living a little bit better, so we never thought about education, you know, going to college.
MRR When the college did open, within in a few years there were faculty of color here. Do you recall any of those faculty?
RLL No, because I didn’t come out this way. I worked and the only time I’d start coming out here is when I retired because I always wanted to come out and listen to speakers and learn more. So that’s when I started coming out here. I never thought of Miami University any other way.
MRR Another question I’d like to ask you, did you ever know a gentleman named Leon Childs?
RLL No.
MRR And, now when you walk around campus and see students of color, what is it that you would like to say to them?
RLL Well, I would like to say to them, I hope they’re getting a good education. I hope they’re not out here partying and just to be out here just to be partying. And that I hope that they go far in life. And whatever they are learning, I hope they teach someone else and encourage someone else to also seek a good education.
MRR When the campus was founded, the original committee wanted to create opportunities. Do you see those opportunities now rolling out for the entire community?
RLL I really can’t answer that. I don’t know. I know why I started my scholarship, because I wanted to give single mothers the opportunity to get a good education and I specifically said for Miami University only.
MRR And have you met any of those scholarship recipients? We can’t name them but have you met any of those young ladies and what have they said to you?
RLL I came out to a scholarship banquet and I met three. One family thanked me for the scholarship. And plus I had a little problem with my scholarship when I finished paying it off. First, it was sent a letter telling me that my scholarship was to do things around campus life. You know, fixing a Finkelman door and things like that and they never mentioned what I said I wanted. So, I have a bad habit of when I get information I don’t read it right then and maybe I sit down later on, maybe six months later and I think let me read this. And then I found out that my scholarship was given to a white girl. And so, the name and the address, I thought, I don’t think black person don’t live in this community. In fact, I know a black person would not be living in this community. So, I called my daughter since she has a computer. I said “I need you to look up this name and tis address and tell me whether they’re black or whether they’re white.” So, they looked it up and my grandson called me and said, “I hate to tell you this but she’s all white.” So, I called and I said, “I think my scholarship said “African American single woman with children.” That’s what it said and that’s what I want.” So she said to me that she thought it was against the law to put my scholarship like that and I said “Well, if it’s against the law then I want my money back because if that was the case then you should not have accepted my money. And I definitely do not appreciate you giving my scholarship to a white person.” So, this time I got my information they just gave me the name but they didn’t give me where the person lives, so now I’m trying to find out whether my scholarship is being done the way I specifically said it should be done. And then my letter they sent me said that I went to college and I’ve never been to college so that was false information. So I had to call them and say I have never been to college and the reason why I gave my scholarship because when I go places I don’t see diversity and that bothers me tremendously. When I go to the City Building, I don’t see diversity. So that bothers me and I wonder why is it that blacks cannot get jobs? Apparently they need a better education. And then when I went to Hamilton to work, you don’t see blacks. You don’t see diversity. So that’s why I started my scholarship, to try to encourage black women to get involved and do things. And don’t think you only belong in a certain box. Get outside of your box.
MRR Is there anything else you would like to add to the record on this question about Miami Middletown?
RLL Well, when I first got my scholarship paid for, they invited me out. And I thought it was kind of funny because everybody looked at me like, “What is she doing here?” You know, why is she here?
MRR At a party?
RLL Yes, and I thought it was kinda cute because I knew why I was there. And even people that I’ve known for years and have talked with and knew they never came up to me, you know, like they didn’t know me. And I thought, “Boy, this is very interesting.” I always get a kick out of when I come in and I’m the only black person. And it’s like nobody comes and sits at my table and let’s talk politics or something instead of “why is she here?” It’s because I gave money and started a scholarship and you should come and talk to me to find out what type of scholarship I gave and maybe you would like to have some friends donate to my scholarship.
MRR I think that’s a wonderful approach.
RLL Yes.
MRR Perhaps this will set a lesson and we can get more people to set up more scholarships and to think about that.
RLL I hope so, and I really hope that people, when they start doing scholarships, that they would follow through and give it for diversity, look at diversity when they give it.
MRR I noticed that you’re a member of the NAACP. Would you like to talk to us about that and any connections to any events at Miami Middletown?
RLL I joined the NAACP when I was about twenty-three. And I think I joined mainly because we had a Reverend James Holloman. He was the minister at United Missionary Baptist Church and I never joined church before. I always went to church because I had to go but I didn’t join church until I was twenty-nine and I joined his church because it wasn’t about Heaven and Hell. It was about accomplishments and questions, our surroundings and why we are doing better than what we are doing. The NAACP at that time, Mr. Louie Cox, was president. And going to United Missionary Baptist Church one time, when we tried to get jobs at the library in order to force them to hire blacks, we were very dissatisfied that the only person there was the one that had black did the cleaning. So, we took out all the books to force them. We were really very active, to take out all the books to force them to hire some blacks in certain positions. We did a lot of things in Middletown under James Holloman and the NAACP at that time. And to make Martin Luther King Birthday a federal law, we campaigned, NAACP, we campaigned against the city because it was a federal holiday. It took them about two years before they would recognize Martin Luther King Day as a holiday. So, the argument was, they had personal day and they couldn’t see themselves recognizing, the employees said, they couldn’t see themselves giving up their personal day and the city said they couldn’t afford to pay them for another holiday. So, it took them a long time to recognize Martin Luther King Day and close the building rather than start giving us a program venue for two hours and say “Thank you. Goodbye.” To join the NAACP, I thought there was so many things that we could do to challenge Middletown and what they were doing to black people. And that’s what we did. We would have meetings with the Post Office and find out why aren’t they hiring black people. We had meetings with Doug Ding to find out why he wasn’t closing the library on a federal holiday. We had meetings with the banks to find out why they could not recognize Martin Luther King Day as a holiday because it was a federal holiday. So, the NAACP, those are the things we did.
MRR Did any speakers come to Middletown that made the NAACP proud? To the Middletown campus, did Benjamin Hooks?
RLL Yes.
MRR Did you attend the Benjamin Hooks event in Middletown?
RLL Yes, I attended Benjamin Hooks and I think that’s what inspired me to want to come out here more to listen to more speakers.
MRR Were you surprised to hear that Benjamin Hooks was coming here?
RLL Yes, I was surprised to hear that Benjamin Hooks was going to come. And plus we had an Ebony Fashion Show out here. Yes, it was really nice. Anita Scott Jones, she’s the one that brought it to Miami University.
MRR Do you recall what year that might have been?
RLL No, I don’t. All I know is Anita, she brought it out here to Miami University.
MRR Over the years there has been some diversity programming at the Middletown Campus. Sometimes around Civil Rights, sometimes around Martin Luther King Day. Do you have any comments about those events?
RLL Yes, I used to come to the Martin Luther King holidays because I wanted to see how far we have come in life after all the things that he believed in and worked toward. And so one celebration I came out and I said, “I am tired of coming to “Feel Good Day” because we don’t accomplish anything. Every year we talk about the same thing and every year we are at the same place. So I can’t believe. Why are we doing that?” So really, basically, I stopped going to the holidays because I did not see anything accomplished. I believe in when you set a goal, you should follow through on that goal and see some progress. And I didn’t see any progress. So that’s why I call it the “Feel Good Day.” You go home and forget why we went to the program in the first place and then work toward making things, coming through with the things we talked about.
MRR Sometimes in this last year, 2016, there have been a lot of people talking about “We used to feel good back in the day” or “We’ll make America great again.” Have you any comments about that 2016 theme?
RLL Well my comment is, when Donald Trump said, “I want to make America great again,” I forever watch and wait for a newscaster to say what year are you talking about? And then tell us about that year and what was going on at that time. And if he’s talking about the 1950s, that’d put me back in doing domestic work, working mediocre jobs. Even at Armco, when they discriminated against blacks working out there, there were certain jobs they wouldn’t give them. So they got sued for their discrimination. It bothers me that if he’s talking about the sixties, then I remember the Klu Klux Klan coming to Middletown and parading. So to me he’s saying that he wants white only to have the best of the best and blacks and browns do mediocre jobs and never go to college and never want anything other than going to Heaven and Hell, going to church, and having their religion. This bothers me and then I noticed that since he became President, he’s bringing out a lot of very bad things that’s going to happen. Then it bothered me that since President Obama, he’s harassed him for eight years. And I think, “How can America, this America, that blacks go to war and get killed and die for the country and come back to the country and find out their rights are not as equal to whites?” So this bothers me also. It also bothers me, that everything he campaigned on, if he doesn’t follow through for what he’s said, I believe that there will be a war between the race. Because the things he said, the white people, that’s what they want. And he has to follow through with everything he’s said, and I don’t think he can do that. And the fact that he wouldn’t show his taxes shows that he really is not the best of the best of the best that we could have a President.
MRR So if we take this back to what Middletown Campus can do for our students in the next fifty years, what do you think we should make sure that we do as part of their whole-person education?
RLL To tell the truth and make us aware and make us think. I like when I hear a speaker, if they say something I can’t get out of my mind, when I go home I can hear it. And that makes me want to do something about it. And this is what I hope that the campus would do to talk to students, to make them think, “Is this what we can do to make things better? Is things not going the way they should be going?” So this is what I hope Miami University would do.
MRR Is there anything else that you want future scholars to know as part of this interview?
RLL I hope more black people give scholarship for people of color. And that they feel that their money, they can share it with other people and they don’t have to keep it all to themselves. That they can give it to the next generation to improve our people.
MRR And with that I’d like to know if I have your permission to discontinue the interview?
RLL Yes, you do.
Indexing terms for the finding aid:
African Americans
Armco Steel Company
Armco Park
Ashworth, Sam
Board of Elections
Civil Rights Law
Cox, Louie
Ding, Doug
Discrimination
Domestic/Houseworker
Douglass Park
Hightower, Stephen
Holloman, Reverend James
Hooks, Benjamin
Jones, Anita Scott
King, Reverend Martin Luther
Ku Klux Klan
LeSourdsville Lake
Manchester Hotel
Martin Luther King Day
Middletown High School
Middletown Journal
Midpointe Library
NAACP
Non-traditional students
Obama, President Barack
Open Housing Law
Scholarships
Segregation in Middletown
Single mothers
Tarring of a house
Trump, President Donald
Uniontown, Alabama
United Missionary Baptist Church
Veterans
Vietnam War
YMCA
Interviewer
Marsha Robinson
Interviewee
Rosa Lean Lindsey
Location
Gardner Harvey Library, Miami University Middletown
Collection
Citation
“Sweet MUMories Oral History Project - Rosa Lean Lindsey,” First to 50 - Miami University Middletown Digital Archive, accessed May 3, 2024, https://mum50.omeka.net/items/show/1069.